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Winter 2015: An Interview about Islam with Walter Veith Part 1 of 2
Publish date: Jun 2, 2015
Summary: An Interview about Islam with Walter Veith. Part 1 of 2.
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Q: How did you become interested in the topic of Islam?
A:That was several years back now, when I was researching several different subjects mainly on different religions and also freemasonry. Amongst others, I also read material from Alberto Rivera. He claimed to have been a Jesuit and once to have overheard his Superior General say that Islam was a creation from the Catholic church itself, and that in their secret committees behind closed doors they would be working all together. In my studies, I researched also a great deal of information on all the Lodges, which also covered the Islamic lodges, who in time adopted different aspects of Freemasonry. And of course we cannot forget to mention that there are substantial connections between the British Empire, which I also researched, because the Ottoman Empire was occupied under British rule. Later on, Israel and several different protectorates, for example Egypt, were added.
In addition, we see that the different beliefs in the Islamic religion are very similar to the Catholic Church. We have statements from Roman Catholic priests, that the Koran very strongly resembles the apocryphal Mary Gospel.
This coincides with my own explorations on travels in the Middle East, where I often observed Muslims at different Catholic holy sites (Mary shrines) who would leave prayer notes at these places. And after all, Mary is an important religious figure in Islam and the women especially hold her in high regard and venerate her as such.
It is interesting to read in the Koran that Mary is in higher rank or esteem than Mohammed’s daughter Fatima herself, for the Koran says: ”You, Fatima, will be the 2nd highest woman in Heaven after Mary.“ So we clearly see here a form of Mary worship. The whole structure is similar: We have prayer rituals; the Koran is read in the same manner as the Bible in Catholicism. It’s called lectio divina. In other words: The Bible is sung with constant repetition. It’s read the same way in the Koran: First you sing long chapters.
The Imams do the same when they call for prayer. A good Moslem .learns the Koran by heart, even if he does not understand Arabic. It is not so much the content but the ritual and recitation.
If you take Islam in University as a subject, you are instructed how to pronounce the nuances and emphases of the Koran in song and prayer. The whole objective is the right pronunciation, the right tone of voice, the overall speech melody, and no thought is given towards the content, as it plays no important role. The same applies to the Pope, Benedict XVI, who said that the Bible needs to be read in the style of lectio divina. But it’s really just another form of occultism or spiritualism: the constant repetition of verses and chapters , that are not assimilated into the heart as truth, but that rather serve as a medium to transport oneself into an altered state of consciousness.
Q: Have you addressed the connection and parallels between Islam and Catholicism in public?
A:Several years back I gave a lecture on this, where I shared this information entitled, "Islamic Connection". It's part of the Total Onslaught series. It was all information that I had read. I did not make that stuff up. But believe me, there was a severe reaction to it; there was strong opposition. On the other hand, I have met a lot of Moslems, even in America, that have been imams and have seen this lecture and some of them are now Adventist pastors.
Q: Can you expound some more on this?
A:One of them studied at the Helderberg College in South Africa. I had a long conversation with him there one day. He grew up in a family of imams, and he related to me that when he was still a boy he used to listen in on the conversations when all the imams met together out of curiosity. But one time, when they were just taking part in a secret ritual, he was caught and was brought before the group. He was told that because he had witnessed the ritual, he had to become a member and be part of their secret teaching.
In any case he had deep roots in Islam. His sister somehow ended up studying in Germany and later on she got to an Adventist school in Austria called Bogenhofen and became a Christian during her stay there. He got the job from his family to get rid of his sister. But his sister was very wise and she said to him that since he was already there at Bogenhofen, he might as well learn German and that everything else could come later. As time went by, he developed relationships with the teachers there and at the end he became an Adventist himself. He went back to his family and tried to explain everything to them but they stoned him and left him for dead, or at least they believed him to be dead—similar to the story of Paul the apostle. Anyway, he survived that experience and returned to South Africa and somewhat later I think he immigrated to the States.
Another person was Melek, our tour guide for the Turkish tour we took. We had many conversations with her on the bus drive and it just left a strong impression on her mind. And as things happen, she ended in Helderberg Collage in South Africa where she began her studies and later got baptized into the church. I remember the many Bible studies I gave her. She was a special friend of our family. She said she could not go back with her little daughter as they would kill her and so she decided to also go to America where she married an Adventist pastor. She is very active in the work with Moslems. She had to change her name, though, so she would be not be recognized.
Another very interesting experience I had with Moslems was related to a girl I knew from my home in South Africa. She was Adventist but not a very strong one. She decided to go to Saudi Arabia to work over there. Many Africans do this, as there are higher wages over there. She married a Muslim there and became Muslim herself, despite her Adventist upbringing. That’s a surprising jump!
The interesting part was that the Moslem women were just crying their hearts out to her as she herself was a Moslem now. There was one woman especially that was very unhappy with her faith. She asked her, "is it really true that a woman has to always be a second class citizen as in Islam?" And, "What is it like in heaven?" Is her only purpose there to be a plaything for men? And so forth. So my ex-Adventist friend told her that there is a different side to it but that she doesn’t know it exactly and can’t really answer her questions. She told her however that there is someone in South Africa who can maybe help her.
Once in every couple years this ex-Adventist would go and visit her family in South Africa. Her husband allowed her to do that. And as she had again opportunity to go, the Moslem woman wanted to join her and meet the “crazy guy“ who her friend had talked about and ask him questions. So she came along. Her husband apparently brought her to the airport and said, “I don’t know why I'm letting you go, but go before I stop you.” So she visited us in South Africa and she told us about her problems. She told us how she felt like a second-class citizen as a woman. Did she have any value at all? What was the purpose of life anyway? She said that she loved her husband and that there was no problem there, and she wanted to return to him. But is God really as her faith portrays Him?
I studied the Bible with her and shared with her how God created man and that man and woman were made equal and that both have the same responsibility before God. Then we touched on the topic of Jesus, and she got a little ruffled and said, “No, no, it cannot be that Jesus is God.” I responded with another study on Bible prophecy to show her that the Bible and the Koran have completely different content. That gave her a whole new perspective and she was convinced that the Bible was a very special book. And finally at the end, we had a Bible study on Jesus as God. And when it became clear to her, she started to cry and said that she would love to choose this God rather than the other, because He sees her as a person with equal rights, as a person with value, and who wants to have a personal relationship different from the relationship she was used to having.
So I said to her then:, “Good, then you have to accept Christ as your personal Savior“ and explained to her how this is done. She agreed that we should pray together, and she even said a sweet prayer indicating that she wants to accept Jesus as her personal Savior and wants to serve only Him.
But the time arrived when she had to go home again; she still had her husband down there that she did not want to abandon. What should she do now? Well what should I tell her? She told me if she would tell him that she became a Christian that she would surely die. Then I remembered the story of Naaman who had a similar problem: What if he goes back and he has to go into the heathen temple of his king in his home country? So I gave her the same answer: “Go in Peace”. That was kind of the way I said it. I did not have any other response at that moment.
Q: Are you still having lectures on the topic of Islam?
A:No, no, I lectured on it only in the past. (It is part of Total Onslaught, "The Islamic Connection." But the lecture still continues to bring this problem to a head. It was around that time that a teaching gained popularity in the Adventist Church that Allah is the same God as we have. There were several Pastors and evangelists that promoted that idea very strongly -- famous Pastors from big universities like Andrews and big evangelists from Australia who said, “Allah is just another name for our God. They are exactly the same and since we have so many similarities in our teachings, this gives us an advantage to reach out to Moslems.”
Then I was invited to a discussion in one of our bigger universities. The dean and representative of the General Conference wanted to speak with me. My good friend François DuPlessis was there as well. During this discussion, I first realized how deep these thoughts had rooted themselves, because these two individuals were very angry about my lecture on Islam, especially that I had said that Catholicism is very similar to Islam. They stated very clearly that Allah was the same God as we have, and that we had so much in common. They mentioned that the Koran talks about the Commandments, and it mentions the health laws. The Moslems don’t eat pork and we don’t either. They are not allowed to drink and get drunk. So, they said, we have all these awesome parallels, and it is in the Koran just like it is with us, they said. They also mentioned that Moslems had respect towards Jesus, perhaps not as God, but as a Prophet. They also said that Moslems respected the People of the Book. So the conclusion was that we have the same God as they have and that we need to stop to talk such nonsense. They added that my type of evangelism is not reaching any normal people out there.
Very well, I told myself, and made my way back home. As we were leaving the place, a young man approached us who was involved in the esoteric world. He thanked us that he could learn the truth. Immediately after that, we went to eat and met a geologist who had been an evolutionist and had now become a creationist and Adventist. He thanked us very warmly for the truth he had learned. And then one more person, a neurosurgeon, found us and thanked us. Three right after the other! I thought, “Well, if this type of evangelism truly is for people of lower class then we have here a rather interesting palette from an esoteric to a neurosurgeon!"
I went back to South Africa and probably two years went by after that meeting. Then I visited a campmeeting with speakers from America where I was also a speaker. There were many seminars presented and I knew one brother very well who used to be a friend of ours in South Africa before he immigrated to the United States. He became a pastor and worked with some of the people who use these new methods of evangelism, especially evangelism with Moslems, promoting the opinion that Allah is the same god as ours. Because of our past friendship he took it as his responsibility to talk to me on this topic and so to speak “help me out”.
That was an interesting conversation. We talked for three hours! He explained to me how evangelism works by today’s standard and how it will be done in the future. He told me about our leading institution in America where they learn how to work with Moslems. He reasoned that because they believe in the same God as we do that we don’t really have to call them out of Islam, as I preach it, because it was just a different culture form in contrast to our culture. So theoretically they could stay in their mosques and still pray to Allah in their way, for Allah and God are the same person and there is no difference. He urged me also to stop my message of, “Come out of her my people”. Of course I knew that did not go along with what I knew from the Spirit of Prophecy which has something else to say on the matter.
But the really interesting thing came later as we were on our way home. It was rather far, we had to drive approximately 2000 km. I had my camp trailer attached to my truck and using the GPS, we were able to find little places between the area of Karoo and our home in the Cape to spend the night. We came to the first town or settlement and my wife said that she does not want us to drive through the night and look for a place in the dark, but that we should stop early enough before it gets dark.
So we followed the GPS to the first town and looked around for a camping site. Nothing was there, even though it showed up on the GPS. See, in South Africa everything's gone bankrupt, as a lot of towns were depopulated. To put it in other words, things were not what they used to be. I said, “Well we have to go to the next town then”. But in South Africa, the towns are farther apart, sometimes 2 to 3 hours apart, so we drove to the next village and .there was nothing there either, just a barren field with nothing on it. By now things got late as it was already 11:30 pm. Now remember, I had just had that three-hour discussion with my friend and I was still thinking about the conversation. We were discussing the whole thing as we drove.
So we drive to the next village and we see a sign as we drive into town that said with big letters, CAMP GROUND. But it was already 11:30 and we weren’t sure what to do. “Well there was a phone number”, I said, “and, be it 11:30 or no, I am calling right now and asking them to open the gate”. They answered the phone saying, “Yes, yes we're open. Come on in”. We drove in and the man opened the gate for us. The man owned a pub and the campground, which only had 5 parking spots. After he showed us our spot, I got out of the car and said, “We'd like to leave very early in the morning. Can I pay for the spot up front? That way I don't wake you when I leave at 5 am.” He said ok and I paid the bill. He suddenly stared at me and said, ”You are Walter Veith!” He was slightly drunk as he had been sitting at the bar with his customers. He started to become a bit snappy and I did not feel up to that. I was tired and just wanted to lie down. It was already 12 pm and I really wanted to go to bed to be up at 5 and get going.
But because he was a bit drunk, he had well, let’s say a “loose tongue”. He said that I speak against freemasonry and because of that I am a very bad fellow. I responded and said “Yeah, sure. Lets talk another time about it. Maybe I’ll send you a book on it.”
He said “No, I don’t want it.” He then explained that he is the Grand Master of the fraternities around this whole area. And then he got into where they met and so on.
I said, “Great for you. Enjoy! But I would like to go to bed now so if you would excuse me.” Then he got even sharper, not against me but against Christ.
“You and your Jesus…and your…” and then a whole pile of different kind of expressions followed which are not worth mentioning. His tongue was really rather loose. “We will destroy this absurd belief!” he said. I re-tell it now with much nicer words then he did.
So I responded and said, “Well you know, this war is already 2000 years old. One week more or two won't make a difference either way, because I want to go and sleep now.” Then he answered and said that they have made it their duty to give every Christian Pastor in South Africa a Koran. I said, “Good for you. But why exactly the Koran”?
“Because the Koran supports our side,” was his answer. “The Koran removes the idea that Jesus is God. This ridiculous teaching that Jesus is God must be done away with!”
That experience just confirmed my own understanding on Islam again.
Q: Have you read the Koran yourself?
A:Yes, I did. After my meeting in the States that I had with the dean and the friend that criticized me, I decided that I have to read the Koran for myself so I can defend myself. How could I determine who has the truth, if I haven't read the Koran? So I bought the Koran in the version from the UNO, translated, of course. And then I went to a store for Moslems and got another version as well. I had two translations that were apparently good translations. So I started to read very carefully with pencil in hand and this entire discussion in the back of my head. And what I read there was unbelievable. I drove my wife nuts because I would stop every two minutes and ask her to come over and look at what is being said.
I paid special attention to the teachings, where supposedly Adventism and Islam agree.
Q: So what was the result of your study?
A:Well it turned out to be true that the Koran did mention the Sabbath and the health laws and so forth, but not as it is in the Bible. For example the topic of clean and unclean: In the Koran we find that the pig is unclean, but all the rest - everything that creeps and crawls and slithers, ducks, camels, and all kinds of other unclean animals are fine for Muslims to eat! Allah just forbade it for the Jews, because of their disobedience. But the Moslems can eat everything, just not the pig and no blood. So there are small points that overlap and are similar, but there is not such a thing as clean and unclean like in the Bible, because all other animals are allowed.
Then you have the commandment— the Sabbath for example. These laws were given only to the Jews because of their disobedience.
And then you have the topic of women. The translations do differ, but if you look at other sources you get a pretty good picture. A woman is seen in the Koran truly as a second-class citizen. For example, she only inherits half of what a man could inherit. In court, two women are equal to one man as witnesses--two women are needed in case if one forgets the other can help out.
What happens if somebody ends up in heaven or hell? In heaven, so they say, you’ll get a silk sofa, half-naked young men serve you drinks, and you have many women, 72 to be exact, all virgins that will do your bidding. At least the traditional text reads as that. So that’s how life is in heaven. The whole Jihad story is included too. If you die for Allah’s cause, you go directly to heaven.
If you end up in hell, Allah will send an angel. In Islam angels are beings with no freedom of choice. They cannot choose for themselves what they believe or don't. There are several different creatures: there are angels, there are gins, and there are humans. So three different beings instead of two, as we find in the Bible. But there are also different levels of angels with different tasks. Some angels were created just to lie flat on the floor and to worship Allah from morning to evening. Some other angels have the task of keeping hell running. And other angels gather the people that need to go to hell.
That happens very brutally. The angels drag you with your face over hot coals of fire and then throw you in hell. The fire in hell burns all your skin off and to ensure that you feel the pain, Allah gives you a new skin the next day so you can go through it all over again. As nourishment you are given fruits that look like a skull. Your drinking water is boiling hot like melted bronze and every time you drink it, it burns everything inside you. But because you are so thirsty, you’ll drink it anyway. Basically, you’re burning constantly from inside and outside. That's how you end up if you belong to the unbelievers.
Jesus Christ is not the Son of God and they believe Jesus Himself will acknowledge that at the end of the world. If we take a look at the other writings of Islam, like the Islamic tradition – the Hadith – in addition to the Koran, it becomes interesting. Because let’s remember, I was told that in Islam Jesus is held in high regard and that they wait very eagerly for the Second Coming of Christ. But their own writing states that Jesus will destroy, at His second coming, everyone who worshiped him as a God! So only the Moslems will be left.
Further on, we find a lot of mistakes in the Koran. Mary the mother of Jesus is mistaken for Miriam the sister of Moses. So consequently Miriam becomes the mother of Jesus despite the fact that there is 1500 years' difference between the two. Or take the story of Moses and the sojourn out of Egypt, Haman becomes the counsellor of the Pharaoh. The Koran says that the Pharaoh used to crucify his enemies, but historically it was the Romans who came up with crucifixion, not the Egyptians. Moses' stepmother supposedly was not the Pharaoh’s daughter but his wife. The Pharaoh which reigned during this time is also changed. They also have historical mistakes regarding Alexander the Great who they say was very old and a Moslem. Yet Islam as a religion did not even exist at the time of Alexander the Great. Basically it has a lot of historical contradictions.
It is interesting to note that the Hollywood movies based on Biblical themes, such as the Exodus, are not based on the Biblical versions but based on the Koran. That is fascinating. And when we know that company executives like Disney are high Freemasons, everything becomes a bit clearer.
The Koran has also no prophecy whatsoever. And there is also no plan of salvation in its writings. Your salvation or damnation is most likely based on the mood that Allah has at that time. The only absolute security is if you die as a warrior for Allah.
The origins and history of Islam are also interesting. The wife of Mohammed was a Catholic and belonged to a monastery, even if she wasn't a regular nun. She was very rich and made her wealth available. And interestingly enough, with his wars, if I remember correctly, he had problems with his own people, and during that time the Catholic princes gave him protection until the conflicts passed.
And then we have the whole story with Mohammed and his wives. As you know, he had several wives, and even a wife that was as young as nine years old. Because of his own relations, he made it legal to have up to four wives. But because he himself, after his first wife died, had more than four wives, he had to come up with some sort of justification for it. And so Allah said to him, “Because you are a special Prophet, it is for you and you only, to have more than just four wives.”
Another thing was that he was coveting his son's wife. He did also marry her after she divorced his son. That was an ethical problem and because of that we read in the Koran: ”Because you are my prophet, you can transgress the Law that one is not allowed to marry family relatives. For you it is allowed.”
The Koran also takes quite a strong position against the Trinity or the Godhead found in the Bible just for the simple reason that Mohammed did not agree with the Trinity.
All these things are found in the Koran: Allah has no Son, he will exterminate all non-Moslems (that is not written in the Koran, but in other writings of Islam), and Jesus Himself will testify that He is not God's Son. And that should be the same God we have. Really?
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